Illinois vs. August Spies et al. trial transcript no. 1. Direct and re-direct examination by Mr. Grinnell. Cross-examination by Mr. Foster. Testified through an interpreter. Testified on behalf of the Prosecution, People of the State of Illinois. Testified on various topics (page numbers provide a partial guide): "Revenge" circular (vol.J 358), the Arbeiter-Zeitung (vol.J 358).
Testimony of Hermann Podeva, 1886 July 24.
Volume J, 358-364, 7 p.
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[Image, Volume J, Page 358]
Illinois vs. August Spies et al. trial transcript no. 1.
Direct and re-direct examination by Mr. Grinnell. Cross-examination by Mr. Foster. Testified through an interpreter. Testified on behalf of the Prosecution, People of the State of Illinois.
Testified on various topics (page numbers provide a partial guide): "Revenge" circular (vol.J 358), the Arbeiter-Zeitung (vol.J 358).
a witness for the people, having been duly sworn, was examined in chief by Mr. Grinnell, and testified through an interpreter as follows;-
Q What is your name?
A Hermann Podeva.
Q Where do you live?
A 79 Mozart street, Humboldt.
Q What is your business?
A I am compositor.
A At the Arbeiter Zeitung.
Q How long have you been there?
A Seven years in a few months.
Q Were you there on the 3rd of May last, on Monday the 3rd of May?
Q What time did you quit work that afternoon?
A Our stopping time was 5 o'clock.
Q Did you stop at 5 o'clock that day?
A As I was about to go home, we received the order to set up something yet.
Q What was it you set up?
A It was a circular.
Q Is that the circular? (Handing witness so-called Revenge circula)
A Yes sir.
Q What part of it did you set up, if any?
A I set up the first part of the English.
Q Where does it begin, the part that you set up? Read the part that you set up?
A I cannot read it well.
Q Tell me the lines that you set up. (The witness indicated to counsel). Beginning with the first line there?
A Yes. Six lines.
Q Set up down to that clause (indicating)?
Q Six lines--you set up that, did you?
Q Who gave you the manuscript from which to set it?
A That I don't know.
Q Is that the manuscript from which you set it? (Handing witness manuscript.)
A Yes sir, that is likely the one.
Q When did you quit work? How long were you at work setting up this Revenge circular, or this circular?
A I think about an hour.
Q Did you have any other manuscript than this? Is there (Indicating) where the manuscript begun which you were ordered to set up?--Beginning with the words, "Your masters"?
A Yes, that was the beginning as I saw it.
Q How many of you were there setting up that circular?
A That I do not know precisely. About half of the type-setters were there yet. But they were not all employed on that circular.
Q How many do you think now--how many do you remember as having been employed at that circular?
A Precisely, I do not know. There might have been five or six.
Q How long, how many minutes did it take you to set up the part that you were asked to set up?
A I think about nearly half an hour.
CROSS EXAMINATION By
Q The copy did not have the word "revenge", did it?
THE COURT:--The manuscript.
MR. FOSTER--No, the copy. Printers call it copy.
A I did not see the German manuscript at all.
Q Well, did the English have it?
MR. GRINNELL--That he saw.
THE COURT--Well the English manuscript which you saw--did it have the word "Revenge?"
MR. ZEISLER--Well, the English manuscript did not contain the word "Rache", the translation. He must use the English word.
THE COURT--No, but whether the English word "Revenge" was on the manuscript which he had?
MR. FOSTER--Yes. Was the English word "revenge" on the manuscript which he had?
A I did not see the heading at all. I cannot remember to have seen it in writing.
Q Did you set up the word "revenge" in English at the top of the circular?
A Yes sir; I set up the word "revenge".
Q Where did you get it?
A That correction you must allow me to say a few words in explanation.
Q Very Well; let him explain.
A When I had set up my six lines--I was about to take them out and put them on the galley.
MR. GRINNELL--That is, on here. (Indicating the galley in court.)
MR. GRINNELL- Go on.
A Then I saw the title standing upon the galley already set up, but it was different than it is there now. If I remember right, it was "To arms! Workingmen to Arms."
MR. FOSTER-Well, what did he do then?
A I put my portion on to it and began to put up the spacing. Then there were a few more that looked at the heading in passing by.
And one expressed the opinion--I don't know whether it was one of the type-setters,-and sometimes there was another one.
MR. GRINNELL)--His opinions are not proper.
THE COURT--Let him go on.
A Who, I did not know, and he expressed the opinion that the heading did not look well: "To Arms!' To Arms!"
MR. FOSTER--Well, go on.
A The opinion was expressed that the short word "To" and the longer word "Arms" did not look well; that another longer word should be used, which would give it a better appearance. And of course it was added that whatever should take place of it, should be set in place of it, should express the same idea as the preceding
word. It was also said that of course the writer of the circular should read the proof, and that he would either take out the word "Revenge" or leave it remain there.
Q Well, who put in the word, "revenge".
MR. GRNNELL--That is, who printed the type?
MR. FOSTER--Yes, who put in the type--the word "Revenge"?
A As I had nothing else to do and also supposed that the writer of the manuscript would take out, or would not take out the word "Revenge", I set it up.
Q Then you set up the word "Revenge" yourself?
Q Under the belief that that meant the same as "To Arms."
A Yes sir.
Q Who read the proof?
MR. GRINNELL--If he knows?
A That I do not know.
MR. FOSTER--Did you see it after it was corrected?
A Yes; I saw the corrections.
Q Did you make the corrections in the type?
A I made some of the corrections in a few lines, and then I left it to another.
Q And who corrected the proof, you do not know?
A I do not know.
Q But as the original writing was sent up it was "To Arms" as a heading?
A No, I do not mean to say that. But it was set up in the form, "To Arms!" originally.
THE COURT--The title, as he found it on the galley.
MR. FOSTER--Yes, the title as you found it on the galley was "To Arms!"
A Yes sir.
Q Well, now, ask him, is it "To Arms, To Arms!" or simply once, "To Arms!"
A Once only.
Q You did not find on the manuscript which you set up the type from, the words "To Arms!"?
MR. GRINNELL--That is what he said first--all that he saw was what he saw from beginning there--that is, originally.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY
Q Do you know who set up the words, "Revenge, To Arms!" first?--I understand you to say that when you looked at the galley, when you came back with the stuff you had up--that you found what on it, above? You began yours there. (Indicating).
A I commenced with the text.
Q And that is all the manuscript you had?
Q Now, what did you see on the galley when you came back with your type?
A I put what I set up, my six lines, to the title as it had been there on the galley.
Q What was it? That is what I am asking.
A Workingmen to Arms.
Q Who set up the type for that?
THE COURT--(To interpreter). Didn't he say that the title was "To Arms, Workingmen to Arms!"? That is, the words "Working Man" had the words "To Arms" before them and afterwards. Now let the witness tell how that was.
(The Interpreter puts the court's question to the witness and gives his answer as follows:)
A On the first line it was "To Arms", and on the second line, "Working Men to Arms!"
MR. GRINNELL--Who set up the type for those words that you have just mentioned?
A That I do not know.
Q When you were discussing as to the character of these words, didn't someone say that he had set them up?